section, so. They could have made job boards a paid feature. I would hate for it to go away without any plans of integrating the good elements of this tab into the user profile page! Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. However, this resulted in two major problems: 1) we had no way to monitor & manage the quality of listings being posted; 2) smaller companies typically posted 1-2 listings for a short duration (eg 30 days) which did not result in enough candidates for them to justify using the platform. Improve this question GitHub began to show only a small proportion of repositories on GitHub-topics. If you're looking to hire developers then Github and StackOverflow are your go-to places. The same way Stack Overflow Q&A put the right answer right on top, when you fill out your profile, Stack Overflow Jobs shows you roles that match the technology or projects you want to work on. The departure of Stack Overflow's management's views and priorities from the needs and opinions of its very own community cannot be better demonstrated than by chopping off jobs and the developer story. In the months that followed, we realigned our internal teams and mapped out the plan to transform our Talent & Advertising businesses. @animuson There were developer surveys in 2020 and in 2021, too. I applied to Stack through it, and I've used it since, both from the employer side and the candidate side. hi @balpha, been a while! We and they are investigating. My $0.02. If an endeavor costs more money than it makes, it is unsustainable, regardless of how many people are attached to it. 15 days ago 100% Remote Job Full-Time Employee. It's just sad that people at SO care so little about users data. If someone wants to publish a job, they must pay and the transactions between potential employees and employers will go through SO and not directly. Start technical writing on DEV.to. @PuneetMulchandani So what changes can we expect from SO over the next few years as you free up resources and redirect them towards your core tech? You can use this to improve Stack Overflow Jobs by adding or removing features in a way most useful to developers. Who's in? As someone who hires, it has been mentioned during salary discussions enough times that I know other developers utilize it.
What happened to "What's your best programming joke?"? @animuson Then can we update the data? It conveys a sense of accomplishment in a way that a resume or a portfolio on a site that's non-industry specific does not (i.e., "Top 5% in
"). I've been on both sides of the SO Jobs thing and really liked both. I think there could be a pipeline that feeds into this, say using the current salary tool to then highlight other jobs, but understand this takes development time and has a maintenance/operation cost, which may not be easy to justify. One that SO leadership will regret later on. @Kos I did not write that post but I was indeed able to understand it just fine. I'm also sad about Developer Story. LinkedIn I got those once or twice a week until I disabled my account. While it looks demanding from "our" side, this site is what it is thanks to the people who use it and answer all the questions. I have not been looking forward to this day. Which is very satisfying to me. As a candidate, I've gotten two contracting opportunities that way. How does TeX know whether to eat this space if its catcode is about to change? But to me, SO had the best job portal and had the perfect filters. Either way, time to update my (PDF) CV and remove the link to my Developer Story. There is no indication in Profile tab as well. None of the Jobs features affect rep & privileges on the site. They sure don't appeal to me, someone who can spell "zeroes and ones". Neither has been a good source for organic job prospects, if you want something you have to go get it/make connections. Users should see notices in their profiles right after this post appeared, optionally linking to this post. What should we use instead? SO Jobs has been a reliable, clear and easily parsable resource for job postings. ago. Stack Overflow plans on discontinuing Stack Overflow Jobs and Developer Stories by March 2022. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. I'm sure glad the new owners have decided that their bottom line and "inability to differentiate themselves in some ill-defined marketing category" is more important than the value the actual community has found in the tools we've been given. ago. jobs didn't exist when i was most driven by the gamification. I'm always excited when I start a new job hunt, until I unexpectedly apply to a recruiting firm that won't stop calling me with useless job offers i'm neither interested in nor a good fit for. Plenty of users are grinding out rep just fine, whilst ignoring the fact Jobs exists. Edit: On a personal note, even before I worked at Stack, I thought what was then Stack Overflow Careers was the best developer job board available. I've also provided some feedback on it over the years. The world's largest telecom firm saved $10M in deflected support cases with our centralized knowledge base. I've no doubt a number of people, myself included, would be willing to help upkeep it. You misunderstand; tag scores are not a measure of skill but a highlight on a CV. But SO already removed access to the data time ago anyway. Perhaps I'm wrong in suspecting that deciding one way or another would make a difference to your finances, but my feeling is that at some point, somewhere in SO a bunch of managerial-type guys got together and started mumbling the usual biz-talk BS about "blah blah growth" and "blah blah next generation" without stopping for once to consider what the actual "blah blah community" finds good, useful and valuable. This so-called information was utterly useless at determining whether you could program or not, but if you spelled everything right and used suitable fonts, you could come in for a day of interviews at which you would be asked to perform mundane programming tasks on a whiteboard. Maybe you can reconsider to leave the Developer Story section? It gives an answer I spent 10 minutes writing (if I deem it useful enough to list there) about the same prominence as a job I spent a few years doing (and the PluralSight tests are given higher prominence than everything else). Well, is it a competition? This will tie the product closer to what we offer through Stack Overflow Advertising []. It is not currently accepting answers. Maybe it's just not profitable "enough"? Does this mean the Pluralsight IQ Skill integration will go as well? It had a sort of sadness to it but I'm sure that's just because I'm seeing it given the current news. 17 Best Stack Overflow Jobs Alternatives to Use Today - Remote Work Junkie (Even if they're not what you're . If you don't want to maintain it, please open source it and release the relevant raw data (anonymized, of course). Also, the reason I linked the url was to have another portal for showing support to the issue but it seems I it would be better to not bias my answer with that. of topics. Unfortunately most of the people who actually know how this place works are gone, and there is a growing group of people now getting used to a new normal where a "community run environment" is a pipe dream. 2. fracturedpersona 8 mo. There are plenty of valid critiques that are sticking around just fine the attacks, however, should not. I'd like to see job ads for part-time or freelance work. TL;DR - On March 31, 2022, we will discontinue Stack Overflow Jobs and Developer Story. It's my wish that the SO should rethink this decision. And since developers are in demand, we know it's not about finding a job it's about finding the right job. A Forrester Consulting study shows 191% return on investment with Stack Overflow for Teams. I can only hope that it will be more gain for them than harm. The mods removing comments of people lashing against this decision is the new SO meta. and decided that it will be more profitable to take a slice of that cake, for instance by selling them ads. If something is good (or good enough) it doesn't always mean you need to keep tweaking it. What a very bad day at work taught me about building Stack Overflow's Maybe the trouble is that industry recruiters aren't nerdy enough to use the job boards and, instead, prefer to mass-spam us without bothering to actually target their talent? Still can't believe that storing this data would cost more than you make with selling it . But it's still down 40% compared to last year," she wrote. Does this not fall into the broad purview of Programmery questions, or is it really off topic? SO job listing had the jobs where any other big portals don't have those wonderful jobs. Google put it well "do not do evil" to the users. The popular question-and-answer site will sunset its Developer Stories in late January, followed by the Salary Calculator in February. Without Dev story my attention while on SE may move off to more hobby related sites. Less than 1% of our monthly traffic engaged with Jobs and only ~0.03% have a Developer Story thats visible to employers. It seems you are not only questioning the developer profile but the reputation system as a whole! You can add that info in your resume and use it when applying to positions relevant to these technologies. Founded in 2008, Stack Overflow's public platform is used by . Goodbye Stack Overflow Jobs Only the great die at 11 (RIP Stack Overflow Jobs) What you've got are interested, motivated devs reading your site every day. I second blind as well, also career fairs. Maybe I just to focus my resume? SO Jobs itself? Joel was correct that it's "utterly useless at determining whether you could program or not", but resumes are still part of the hiring ritual and Stack Overflow failed at iconoclasm. @ruffin Ha! End of the Line For Stack Overflow Jobs - i-programmer.info There, When reading rigid opinions as "SO should better focus on what it does better, which is improving Q&A", just wonder what would be Google today if would stubbornly only develop Google Search, so no Gmail, no Maps, no AdSense, no Android, no Chrome, no NodeJS, no anything else would appear, can you imagine such horror story? His answer was something like, "Sure, but it's really expensive. General Stack Overflow Jobs Alternatives. You're not asking, you're telling me you will cut off my left arm Thats what this feels like anyway. I'm a bit surprised the company could not make it work financially given the opportunity to gain the attention of so many serious developers. It was always a good place to showcase one's achievements both on StackOverflow and worldwide. Removing Jobs from the portal would reduce the gamification of the site, resulting in fewer people answering questions, which would in turn reduce the value of the Q&A aspect of the site too. But I've never understood this shift. I found this to be true as well. I thought this was maintained based off the yearly developer survey. The job search, and your developer story/CV now exist solely here on Stack Overflow without the need for a secondary site or a second login. Users perceive Jobs not as a "product" as you call it but instead as a service, if possible even with "continuous delivery" / and improvement / at their end, not something done once, therefore ready, delivered, then dead. I always kind of viewed SO jobs as being for the recruited, and not designed for the recruiter. Your underestimating it's value to the community and your company. We support workplace diversity. Can't see how this wasn't profitable. can we have alternatives ? What do developers care about when they evaluate new opportunities? it's entirely meaningless. Wed rather spend that effort on improving our core platform and products that are more closely aligned with it. I will miss having my CV on Stack Overflow. Unfortunately, traffic alone doesnt cut it in the recruitment tech space; we lacked enough candidate engagement especially when compared to other competing products. I think SO users who have found gainful employment on SO's jobs board would agree SO's board is more than sufficient. @rossipedia "Smart boss, simple worker: wage decrease, worktime increase; smart worker, simple boss: wage increase, worktime decrease or both; smart boss, smart worker: wage increase, worktime decrease, profit increase", The fees for recruiting devs were really high. rev2023.6.2.43474. I have personally used it extensively and frequently recommend to lots of people in my network. Whether it's not profitable "at all" or just not profitable "enough" the outcome/conclusion is still the same. a no-bullshit description of what the job in question entails, what the company does, so I can make an ethical choice, a reasonably standardized posting format so I have a rough idea of what I can find there. Careers 2.0/Talent/Jobs was a noble endeavor that never got pointed in just the right direction to succeed. So I asked him if he'd tried Stack Overflow's job listings. @KevinB - I mentioned a case in my above comment. Thank you for the reply and clarification, I understand your concerns. Its great to be able to tell a recruiter "my resume is hosted on SO, here is a link:" Losing the dev story is a big personal loss for me. We launched Stack Overflow Careers with the goal of fixing how companies hire developers. iFit. @Harshvardhan That's why it should just be open-sourced. It's literally a game of quantity over quality. I was in the beta and one of the first people to ask a question on the platform. At least they were not useless. Jobs & careers - remote and in-office jobs - Stack Overflow That was, more or less, the diagnosis I heard internally a few years later. LinkedIn doesn't quite cut it in my opinion. The section that displays that you are in x% of all time answerers for some technologies is really useful. The majority of the DMs I get on LinkedIn mention my SO developer story (specifically the Python top x%). That makes more sense to me, but doesn't really fit with the lifestyle stuff in your "Employer Branding" description, though. I must also say I'm rather put off by your attempts to euphemistically beat about the bush with expressions such as "sunset" or "competitive advantage". Exiting this space allows us to refocus on products that build on our core strengths: knowledge reuse and building communities at scale. @PabloH Jobs was likely a commercial failure because it was improperly priced in its entirety, focusing on mega-corp budget acquisition (I was a potential customer). It gave an independent place to verify that top 10% SQL on the site and 277/300 pluralsight IQ in TSQL. Which brings me to the other side of SO Jobs. Back in April 2021, Prashanth posted an update on the transformation of our company and he provided a high-level overview of the changes planned for our Talent business: We are realigning the Talent business to focus more on customer employer branding and company awareness needs, and moving away from job slots and direct hiring. Back in April 2021, StackOverflow announced that it was " moving away from job slots and direct hiring ". I wanted to chime in and say that while I haven't gotten a position through Jobs, I had incredible opportunities through it and made very valuable connections. Maybe you were trying to market it to the wrong crowd. I was online almost every day and trying to answer the questions just to increase points bit by bit. You don't have to compete against the big players to be good. This answer deserves more votes. but you were already the only good place to look for a job, by a wide margin! by your logic companies should ignore GitHub, because anyone could "fork" a repo and show it as their projects. If you have any questions or concerns, please let us know by posting them as answers to this question. Also, why not let the community to build that part of the SO as an open source? Why do I care about a company's work/life balance if I don't want to apply? Stack Overflow "layoff" Reviews | Glassdoor The same system should, in theory, also allow for meaningful tagging and effective searching of both developers and jobs (and effective matching between them). The company is big and until now I knew it so, Job SO is one of its top money maker. :confused: If the goal is to entice devs to work at companies and remove the conduit to apply and see open jobs, how do you show companies it's working? That's fair, but I don't always have time to rehash half a decades worth of history in a post unfortunately, and perhaps I just assume too much common knowledge about some of the topics here. We surveyed over 500 developers and the findings might surprise you. My honest hope is that someone builds an opt-in SO Dev Story alternative. It means users are choosing to engage when they're looking to move. Is it possible to design a compact antenna for detecting the presence of 50 Hz mains voltage at very short range? Sunsetting these features has definitely felt bittersweet. Add link to "Sunsetting Jobs & Developer Story" from the 404 page for Jobs, Living room light switches do not work during warm/hot weather. Please reconsider. Stack Overflow - Remote Work From Home Jobs & Careers | FlexJobs About two years ago, a significant event happened at Stack Overflow: a new system, named Providence, was released. Besides the cool interface and the interesting ads, what stood out for me is that if felt like most of the jobs ads came directly from the companies, instead of recruiters. Sigh. In reality, most developers dont actively seek out opportunities via job boards; they rely increasingly more on their network and connections, similar to your experience of interacting with like-minded folks. Here you go https://stackoverflowjobsalternatives.com you will find a lot of job board in there :) Making these changes allow us to spend more time improving our core knowledge sharing platform and the products that are closely aligned with it. I ask this as someone who was using their SO Jobs profile as the canonical source of resume information, and now I guess I have to go back to USAJobs or notepad or something. Kestrel1000 8 mo. (1/2), We would need to spend a lot more time & effort to address these issues, and wed likely still be behind competing products where recruitment is their primary focus. The explanation, at least for me, made no sense either. Also, the Developer Story is strictly not opt-out and it's kinda stuck there once you fill it out. We opted to share this post here earlier so that people had a heads-up that these changes were underway. I've recommended StackOverflow as THE place to find qualified developers. Thanks again for everything you've done for Dev Story, and more generally for Stack, over the years. It is called a stack, which has a Last In-First Out data structure. For one job I posted, the first SO applicant and subsequent applicants were all better than applicants found by other means. Companies hiring Remote Developers - Stack Overflow @Clonkex I think, doing something once in a year, maybe it is cheaper by hand. Some features were absolutely crucial for me: The Joel Test marks. StackOverflow was by far the best job listing platform I have ever used. Germany . StckOverflow Jobs is closing. What should we use instead? (1/2), These are solvable problems - for example, the suggestions you made about improving Developer Story are all valid. Anyway, just to add to the chorus that this is really sad. Unfortunately, traffic alone wasn't enough of a differentiator in the recruitment tech space and we were lagging behind other competing products when it came to candidate engagement. That was enough to tell me they wouldn't value me as a developer in the ways I needed, and I moved on. When I joined Stack Exchange, I got a bunch of Careers 2.0 swag. I second this request. I had it so my resume was less developer-focused, and then links to my GitHub/SO profile highlighted my developer traits. Funny thing is I suppose the monetization of Jobs was super healthy, why not just add/remove random bars/buttons/tabs/columns as usual? I know the survey question sets have been pretty wacky the last couple years, so they may have just not included that info. In fact, I got couple of job offers from SO from the countries where I couldn't imagine. I cannot help but assume this is money driven and they want to allow recruiters to advertise instead - lazy, easy money. I don't use a resume/CV any more, I send people my SO Dev story! There also isn't any export feature for developer story yet, unless you want it as a static PDF. Can't get TagSetDelayed to match LHS when the latter has a Hold attribute set, Cartoon series about a world-saving agent, who is an Indiana Jones and James Bond mixture. Similarly, you can analyze the answers to estimate the level of the candidate. Yes, the 2020 and 2021 surveys asked for the salary as well. Use these job sites for all categories of jobs, but many also include various developer, engineering, and even web3 gigs. In other words, how does a focus on 3rd party branding mesh with devs who are by definition of being here focusing on the nuts and bolts of software development, not making brands? Let's not mix up the 2 aspects here. But I've also (perhaps naively) thought that it was as much (or almost as much) about community. Keep removing features and switch the focus from the users/helpful content, to more commercial stuff. I am really Sad that SO Jobs are going away. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. To summarize my rant, I have a couple of points TL;DR-style: Early in the morning waking up to hear this news is very heartbreaking and very sad news to me. stackoverflowknows December 7, 2021 New data: What developers look for in future job opportunities How do you attract technical talent? While Talent & Jobs helped us get to where we are over the past decade, the talent acquisition space is not one where we have a strong competitive advantage. Perhaps I have a naive view of how demanding the maintenance of Jobs is, but my feelings right now are along the lines of "shut up and just leave it alone". What just happened to Stack Overflow? - Meta Stack Exchange I spent four years of my life building and maintaining those things. The true measure of technical skill can only be assessed (if at all) after someone has spent significant time working in an organization/team. Even in the new era of Careers 2.0, recruiters required resumes and Stack Overflow's service didn't provide enough of them. Great advice from Eve that you can basically ask your users here about how to improve these features instead of killing it. Why take it away? So, now that the only adequate and SPAM free job resource goes away, what are the alternatives? Hopefully some general software components and/or gained knowledge can live on. Well, amazingly the number of fake internet points don't actually mean much usually. looks like a nice service, but must say I decided to not use any of cv services anymore. Oups ?? Is there any chance of getting someone to take over this feature in some way? So drive by messages from recruiters that haven't bothered reading my profile seem to be common place. The points youve described here are exactly how the Jobs platform functioned and why it was a major part of our strategy over the past decade. Disagree again. Edit: A couple of other thoughts following comments.
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