Got feedback? IFMGA Mountain Guide Tino Villanueva descends Pineapple Basin with a BCA Float 32. DWR (Durable Water Repellent) is a coating that is applied to fabrics which makes them water-resistant, or hydrophobic. We independently buy, test, and rate all the products we review. Avalanche airbag backpacks are the kind of gear you never want to use. (10) Travel. We explain differences in each airbag's shape, where and how it's deployed, the trigger mechanism used, if the system is modular, what gas is inside the canister or whether it is electrically powered, and other model-specific features. GearLab is reader-supported. The bay fishing is done right near there too. We hope our review helped you make a more informed decision on which airbag pack is best for you. The Osprey Soelden Pro 32 combines our favorite overall airbag system, the Alpride E1, with one of our team's favorite pack designs. The stash pocket is advertised for various uses, however its position sits between the main compartment on the fan component of the airbag and the avalanche tool pocket. When you purchase through our links, we may earn a commission. Our Editors independently research, test, and rate the best products. I've checked out as a Guest on Moosejaw.com. This comfortable pack features a functional design and our favorite airbag system, Airbag zipper pops open way less than other models, Compression straps must be unbuckled to unzip the pack all the way. You also can't see inside it easily, so you just have to "feel" for things, and it's easy for them to become lost. $320.00. One could go back and forth about the packs effectiveness in varying terrain types, and the multitude of variables that are at play in an avalanche incident. You probably would've looked amazing with it too. }); The program opt-in requirement was added on August 6th, 2019. Happy to have the added protection and versatility of the Soelden Pro 32L airbag pack. The trigger of the BCA Float pack shown here is modular. They will try really really hard to repair your pack, but if they are unable to make a functional repair, they will replace it. Anyone can join and everyone belongs. Osprey officially enters the airbag arena with packs that come equipped with the Alpride E1 electronic avalanche system. wcTopic.subscribe("ShoppingListItem_Added", function() { We purchased a variety of packs for our side-by-side tests to help you find ones for different uses, whether that's a multi-day hut-to-hut tour or a bucket-list heli-skiing trip to the Chugach. GearLab is commited to honest, objective, reviews. If they are unable to perform a functional repair on your pack, they will happily replace it. All trademarks property of their respective owners This is because the battery used in these packs is technically too big, even in a checked bag for international flights. Of course not every pack has a perfect design, otherwise we wouldnt be here discussing gear! Dont know what that means? Do I have to register my pack to take advantage of this incredible guarantee, and/or need to be the original owner of my Osprey pack? Don't forget to tour with your trigger out and your leg strap on. I am single-plank biased, but I often carry my splitboard in ski mode uphill as it is lower profile. The E-1 system has multiple ways to verify its functionality with an LED indicator for charge, replaceable AA batteries as a back-up of sorts, and you can pull the trigger every once in a while to confirm. So if we are running a 50% back special offer, and you buy a regular-priced item for $100.00, you will receive MJ$10.00 in base points, and a bonus of MJ$40. The Alpride E1 models charge via a wall plug and a micro USB, but they can also be charged in about 40 minutes with two AA batteries. This item has been successfully added to your list. 10583374 , These special offers may have a cap on how many bonus MJ$ you earn during the promotion, but you will always earn the base Reward Dollars. Be safe out there! After researching over 40 models, we tested the top 6 over the past few backcountry seasons. How can we improve GearLab? Osprey has innovated backcountry packs with the Soelden Pro and Sopris Pro Avy Packs. We have yet to see studies that show that 30-50 extra liters will keep you on top, but we also don't think it could hurt. Lithium-ion batteries powering a fan must be mega powerful, because the energy required to inflate a 150L in 3-5 seconds in cold temps is so immense. If you're looking for an avalanche airbag pack, you've come to the right place. Packs received higher scores if they provided easy access to our gear and if we could cram them full and completely utilize the space. Ive personally never had significant issue with this on other packs with a simple buckle. Then, when you fly, put the canister back in its box. SHOP NOW Soelden Pro 32 SHOP NOW Kamber 16 SHOP NOW Kresta 20 SHOP NOW Glade 5 SHOP NOW SOPRIS 40 SHOP NOW Sopris Pro 30 SHOP NOW Explore Mountain Biking They, in turn, will give your pack priority processing and return it using a similar expedited shipping method. You can tell Osprey you need the pack returned by a certain date when you request a Return Authorization number, and they will do their absolute best to meet that deadline. Enjoy special offers available only to our account holders. { Supercapacitors, though, are a very unique and cool solution. We loved the huge snow safety tools pocket which even fit larger probes and shovels. This pack has very good overall backcountry utility, with a great snow safety pocket and a great helmet carrier. "ItemImage" : "/wcsstore/ExtendedSitesCatalogAssetStore///s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/MoosejawMB/10499069x1059568_zm?$product1000$", Overall, this model has a great pack design and it's the model we reach for when heading out for overnight tours. Free Shipping Osprey proudly stands behind the All Mighty Guarantee, so much so that it bears the signature of company founder and head designer, Mike Pfotenhauer. Osprey Soelden/Sopris Pro Pack Both the men's and women's Pro models include Alpride E1's super capacitor technology cleared for air travel. As the supercapacitor can deliver energy extremely quickly, the amount of power that needs to be stored is significantly less than a traditional battery. As a result, the non-supercapacitor battery-powered models are typically amongst the heaviest, even heavier than compressed gas. We won't accept manufacturer's freebies. if(typeof(shoppingListJSPDP) == "undefined" || shoppingListJSPDP == null || !shoppingListJSPDP) { Here Scott Orr pulls his for "practice". bvseo-msg: The resource to the URL or file is currently unavailable. All of the Backcountry Access models offer great value, and we particularly liked the Float 32 for its price-to-performance ratio. Raise your voice in the movement to protect and share life outdoors. Soelden Pro The Soelden Pro Avalanche Airbag Pack is a technical backcountry pack equipped with an Alpride E2 electronic avalanche airbag system. Our experts test thousands of products each year. We only make money if you purchase a product through our links, and we never accept free products from manufacturers. This helps increase the size of the victim's air pocket if buried, and hopefully increases their chance of survival. The supercapacitor can deliver a large amount of energy in a relatively short period of time, and is only minimally affected by temperature. Features 2.5 mm LightWire frame with HDPE framesheet and stay provides support for carrying heavy loads into the backcountry Padded hipbelt and contoured shoulder straps provide a comfortable carry and stable fit while breaking trail or descending This is the first Osprey pack Ive owned, and I am thoroughly impressed with the functionality, low-profile, and seamless incorporation of the E-1 airbag system. Rich Weight, Scott Orr, and Tracey Bernstein enjoy a good laugh at being able to fire off the Alpride E1 anytime (seen here in an Osprey Soelden Pro 32) as it only requires 40 minutes and a pair of double AA batteries to recharge. Osprey does not look like a private fishing charter, you go. BCA was able to use a smaller-sized canister by increasing the pressure/capacity of the new one from around 2500-2700 PSI to around 2800-3000 PSI coupled with a redesigned the venturi system itself that both further reduced weight and improved efficiency. Do you want to update the other items to delivery? FEATURES. Osprey Soelden Pro Avalanche Airbag Pack Tested Full-priced items earn 10% back while discounted items earn 2.5%. Amazon.com : Osprey Soelden Pro 32 Men's Ski and Snowboard Backcountry Avalanche Backpack, Red Mountain (10004568) : Sports & Outdoors . This model uses three LED indicator lights with red, yellow, and green colors to let the user know how much charge is in the battery. The Alpride E1 Airbag system is electronic, ready to travel and recharges fast. This is where the supercapacitor really shines. What sets this company's airbag system apart from all other systems is it utilizes a supercapacitor to power the fan rather than the more traditional compressed air or ultra-powerful (and ultra-large, heavy, and expensive) lithium-ion battery. However, it's not recommended to carry skis in an A-frame while in avalanche terrain, because it could affect the deployment of the airbag. For most right-handed folks, wearing the trigger on the left shoulder is ideal as it lets you pull the trigger with your dominant hand. No! Osprey Soelden Pro 32 Avy Airbag | MEC You are responsible for the cost of shipping the pack to Osprey, and they will pay shipping to return the pack via UPS or FedEx. shoppingListJSPDP = new ShoppingListJS({ Next time I'd choose Osprey fishing just for the location. We gave higher scores to packs that used higher-quality material on the inside of their shoulder straps. THE OSPREY ALPRIDE E2 AIRBAG SYSTEM HAS TO STAY CLEAN ALL THE TIME. https://www.moosejaw.com/product/osprey-men-s-soelden-pro-32-airbag-pack_10499069, [ Once nine seconds have passed, the fan cycles between running at 50 percent and 100 percent to keep the bag inflated for the next minute. If you return an item, we deduct the MJ$ earned on that item from your balance. However, after extensive testing, we didn't find most of these sacrifices to be deal-breakers. COMPARE. For a lithium-ion to fill a 150L balloon in 3-5 seconds (potentially in cold temperatures) requires a super powerful not to mention expensive and heavy battery. However, there are a few lighter packs in our test that use the Alpride system. When traveling in or around avalanche terrain where airbag deployment is a possibility, it's better to carry your skis or splitboard diagonally or flat against the back of the pack rather than A-framed on the sides. This offers a huge weight savings over lithium-ion batteries. The balloon packs down incredibly thin, and is nearly unnoticeable in the pack which adds to the amount of truly useable space not just marketed space. They don't sell any packs without the airbag system, but you can purchase two different packs and one cartridge for around the same price as some of the spendier battery-powered fan packs. What if my pack is super dirty and stinks? Diagonal, A-frame, single-side carry, vertical snowboard carry are all part of the deal. wcTopic.subscribe("DefiningAttributes_Resolved", function(catEntryId, productId) { An Innovative Avalanche Airbag Backpack: the Osprey Soelden Pro Shown here, airbag testing on Thompson Pass, Alaska. This pack's design was among our overall favorites. Osprey is no stranger to packs, as theyve been making everything from backpacking packs to ski touring packs to running vests for years now. Soelden Pro 32 Avy Airbag: Whether you're skinning into remote destinations or dropping in by heli, the snow-tuned features provide an extra boost of safety for your most epic adventures . $320.00. The JetForce system is easy to fly with since it does not use compressed air cartridges. We think this model is the best option for those looking for the absolute lightest but still-functional pack. ALL MIGHTY GUARANTEE - Osprey's Lifetime Warranty Osprey also makes this pack with a women's-specific fit, the Sopris Pro 30. Osprey offers the Soelden Pro 32 and Sopris Pro 30 Avalanche Airbag Packs. eval("shoppingListJSPDP.setItemId(catEntryId, productId);"); Osprey kept all options on the table. While we are all for this movement, in reality, 99 percent of people still call them airbag packs, and as a result, that's what we continue to call them in this review. Just real, honest, side-by-side testing. One cartridge contains argon, and the other is carbon dioxide. In combination with this, I am a big fan of separate avalanche tool compartments, even though they may add more zippers and material. This is so the skis or board won't interfere with airbag deployment. What sets this pack apart from other larger models is it doesn't necessarily feel huge, so we didn't mind using it on more casual day trips. OSPREY / ALPRIDE E1 AIRBAG SYSTEM Owners Manual English | 9 SOELDEN / SOPRIS PRO PACK OVERVIEW SOELDEN PRO SOPRIS PRO SIZE Men's One Size Women's One Size TORSO FIT RANGE 17-22"/43-56cm 14-19"/35.5-48cm HIPBELT FIT RANGE 26-50" / 66-127cm 24-45"/ 61-114cm VOLUME 34 L / 2075 cu in. 30 L / 1831 cu in. The Alpride E1 Airbag system is electronic, ready to travel and recharges fast. We liked the large opening but wish it had a two-way zipper. Your Osprey wish list is a great place to keep track of all the things you really want. However, it is lighter than some similar volume packs on the market. Gone are the days of yesteryear when people carried their shovel and probe on the outside of their pack. Privacy | Cookies | Terms. "Buddy" the pelican (as named by his rescuers) is now healthy and strong. This will generally only be a consideration for skiers and snowboarders who frequently travel to ski or snowboard. When in avalanche territory, you better carry the safety equipment necessary in case of emergency. Our testers concluded that of all the things that should be compared when considering avalanche airbag systems, the trigger mechanism was least significant because the reliability difference was small. If youre interested, you can finda course through Mountain Trip and Mountain West Rescue. Another noteworthy feature is the versatility in ski and snowboard carry options. In the event of an avalanche, the wearer would probably come to a rest before the bag began to deflate. The JetForce runs self-diagnostics every time you turn it on, quickly running 100 percent in reverse to make sure the pack is functioning. Supercapacitors are far better than a traditional battery at providing a lot of power in a very short period of time, and they are only minimally affected by the cold, making them ideal for this application. You can easily unsubscribe at any time. Why? Osprey Soelden/Sopris Pro Airbag An inflated Osprey Soelden Pro Airbag. Price: $600 List Manufacturer: Backcountry Access By Ian Nicholson Review Editor Oct 20, 2022 82 OVERALL SCORE RANKED #3 of 6 Backcountry Utility - 22% 9.0 Airbag System - 20% 7.0 Weight - 18% 8.0 Features - 15% 9.0 Downhill Performance - 13% 8.0 Comfort - 12% 8.0 RELATED: Best Avalanche Airbag of 2023 Our Verdict You can do this by reaching their Returns Department at 866-314-3130, or using the information that is provided with a new Osprey pack. First off, the C-shape zipper opening is a big winner for me, as it allows for full access in a duffel-style opening. Women's Wheels | Travel Pack Carry-On. While avalanche airbag packs are important life-saving tools, they also need to serve as a functional pack for traveling in the backcountry. Once the trigger is pulled, the fan runs at 100 percent for nine seconds, providing air to inflate the airbag even when pressured by moving snow during an avalanche. What would your grandmother say about that? You may choose to leave the Moosejaw Rewards program at any time by logging in and clicking on the Opt out Rewards Program link within the My Account Summary page, Email, calling 877-MOOSEJAW (877-666-7352) or in-store with help from our employees. It's not simply who has the best, the biggest, or the most bags. The JetForce packs have a 200L airbag, the largest we tested. Performance on the down is important. Personally, Ive been ski touring and guiding with one most of the season, and I think the added PPE (personal protective equipment) is a worthy tool on a daily basis. Give Osprey a call at 866-314-3130 and they will take care of you. Privacy | Cookies | Terms. Best Overall Airbag Pack Osprey Soelden Pro 32 $1,400 at Amazon 85 OVERALL SCORE Backcountry Utility 8.0 Airbag System 9.0 Weight 8.0 Features 8.0 Downhill Performance 9.0 Comfort 9.0 Free shipping is automatically applied at checkout. And don't try fixing things yourself. Carry-ons, Duffels - Travel Backpacks and Luggage - Osprey Packs The airbag system used in the BCA Float packs is removable and interchangeable, but you can't buy their packs without the airbag system included, so it can get expensive if you want to have more than one pack for different applications. ). However, if you're looking for a model that works for a wide range of applications, provides excellent functionality, and sports a cutting-edge airbag system, then this is your pack. You rely on a trusted and high-performing partner when you're in the backcountry, and the best-in-class Osprey Soelden Pro 32 delivers. "catentry_id" : "5735942", Osprey Soelden Pro E2 32 Avalanche Airbag Backpack - Powder7 Its been an important thing to incorporate into my morning routine, as it does require a bit of fiddling around in order to access the switch. Most splitboarders will use these same systems with the board still "split". For folks who find themselves hiking longer distances at lower elevations where a diagonal carry is less comfortable, the BCA Float 42 2.0 and BCA Float 32 2.0 offer an A-frame carry system in addition to the diagonal carry. , Not only has he taught over 70 different classes on snow science, but he is an outdoorsman passionate about outdoor gear. But if you can keep your backcountry kit tight and make this smaller volume work, the Tour 26 will reward you with user-friendly features, light weight, and the best airbag system on the market. Benefits include great gear offers, special pricing on events and an annual Co-op Member Rewardfor life. The BD JetForce system being charged (left) and trigger with operational display lights (right). We liked packs with additional soft, non-scratching fleece-lined goggle pockets, which help to protect our eyewear while still keeping it accessible. Ski tourers wearing airbag packs is an increasingly common sight in the backcountry. Shop Osprey Soelden Pro Avy 32 Pack | Be The First To Review Osprey Soelden Pro Avy 32 Pack + Free Shipping over $49. It feels like a spacious 32L model and most users will find it plenty big enough for overnights or light hut-based overnights. Read more: Backcountry Access Float 42 2.0 review. Also, if you use expedited shipping be sure to let Osprey know (866-314-3130). Shown here is the Osprey Soelden Pro 32. Some Osprey All Mighty Guarantee FAQs: This new airbag comes fully loaded for the backcountry: Alpride E1 supercapacitor technology that's cleared for air travel; roomy main compartment; separate avy tool compartment; plus ski and helmet-carry compatibility. Airbag system can charge with two AA batteries, Compression straps must be unbuckled to unzip pack very far. 6021-579 Comparing the older 1.0 canister on the left to the smaller and lighter 2.0 canister on the right. The Black Diamond JetForce UL is one of the lightest airbags on the market, around 4.4 lbs for the whole setup. "Attributes" : { This makes it perfect for ski patrollers, guides, or hut-to-hut adventures. The Soelden Pro 32 is one of only a handful of airbags that can carry skis both diagonally or A-frame style. The Soelden Pro is comfortable with the right amount of support, has a great pack design, and features our favorite airbag system. Cosmetic wear and tear including any reasonable aging of your pack that affects only the appearance and not the function of your pack. With that said, it is generally not a big deal to find a location to refill compressed air. 32 L / 1953 cu in. Here an Underwater Sports employee refills a BCA compressed air canister in North Seattle. We won't accept manufacturer's freebies. Earn 10% back on every purchase & spend them on anything. Osprey Soelden Pro 32 Avalanche Airbag Backpack This item is sold out Shop similar gear: All Osprey Gear All Avalanche Airbag Backpacks Our Take/Features Contact Us Shipping Returns Our Take: You rely on a trusted and high-performing partner when you're in the backcountry, and the best-in-class Soelden Pro 32 delivers. There are numerous purpose built straps for this which may be a bit excessive but do provide options. "ItemImage467" : "/wcsstore/ExtendedSitesCatalogAssetStore///s7d1.scene7.com/is/image/MoosejawMB/10499069x1059568_zm?$product1000$", South Padre Island. Even then, the bag inflated just fine and stayed inflated for enough time. So sorry, but only 4 items are allowed for comparison, so we're comparing the first 4. No "sponsored" content. This system is about 30% smaller and around 15% lighter BCA's previous system, the Float 1.0. BCA claims their basic shape allows them to produce and sell their airbag packs for less, thus increasing the number of people who buy them and hopefully saving more lives. Existing program members prior to that date must still formally opt-in and accept the terms and conditions to continue to retain, earn and redeem MJ$. Because an avalanche is more violent than any wave in the ocean you have ever been caught in, so it is very unlikely that your shovel or probe will stay attached if they're on the outside during an avalanche. The Osprey Men's Soelden Pro 32 Airbag Pack is an avalanche safety airbag pack for backcountry touring. This is because you drop your tails into one side of the snowboard carry's bottom loop that is threaded through the inside of the pack and clip the top straps that are one side of the same threaded sleeve on the other. Internal snow safety gear sleeve only fits smaller shovels. No packs scored truly awful here, but some were notably flappier than others. Cart (0) Free Shipping & Returns* Enjoy free shipping and free returns on all orders. "buyable" : "true", The main compartment can haul extra layers, snacks and more. This article focuses on the nuances and differences between each pack. It's also stacked full of sweet features and tons of pockets for organization. Offer good on clearance items ending in .99. Read more: Backcountry Access Float 32 2.0 review. We've tested the best backcountry skis and splitboards, as well as the climbing skins that go with them. Many Backcountry Access packs (and their parent company K2) use the Float 2.0 airbag system. }); "COLOR_|_Onyx Black":"4" No other models could tour the level of easy-to-use features down to the finest detail as the Backcountry Access Float 42 2.0. Ill get to pack design and functionality below. This pack's primary advantage is its low weight. All good answers. Our experts test thousands of products each year. The Osprey Soelden Pro 32L is a highly functional ski touring pack with a few noteworthy features that make it recommendable. For example, the buckles have a cam-lock feature to prevent straps slipping. We gave higher scores to packs we hardly realized we were wearing. The BCA Float System uses compressed air and its 150 balloon is the most common size and shape. The newsletter sign-up system is currently down for maintenance. Material on GearLab is copyrighted. Check out the size guide on Osprey product pages for more info. The compression straps buckle over the zipper for the main compartment and the avalanche tool pocket. The best-in-class men's Soelden Pro 32 gets even better with its next-gen Alpride E2 Airbag System, delivering improved performance in an even more lightweight and compact package for advanced backcountry travel. So what is NOT covered? A common gripe about the E-1 airbag system is the bulk that the component takes up in the pack. Its shoulder straps are some of the best articulated you'll find on an airbag pack and among the most comfortable overall. We think in general this pack is best for folks between 5'7" to 6'3", depending on frame length. "langId": -1 Travel Backpacks and Luggage - Carry-ons, Duffels - Osprey Packs Additionally, the system can be charged off of (but not necessarily run directly off of) two AA batteries and charges in just 40 minutes. IN CASE OF A SPOILED INFLATOR SYSTEM, THE FUNCTION OF THE AIRBAG SYSTEM IS NOT GRANTED. We've also put other safety gear through head-to-head tests to choose our favorite avalanche beacons and the best ski helmets. The JetForce's fan pulls air from the atmosphere, an unlimited source to draw from. Osprey Soelden Pro 32 Airbag Pack - Neptune Mountaineering The side ski carry/compression straps do a great job at not interfering with the airbag, while also still remaining functional. JUST A HEADS UP: If your Osprey product is not repairable and is replaced, the original product will not be returned to you. The Black Diamond JetForce UL employs this system. Wearing it on the left side works well for the majority of right-handed backcountry travelers who will want to grab the trigger with their dominant hand. . On Moosejaw.com, just sign-in on any page to see your available balance. This was about the same time he made the fateful decision to strap a snowboard to his feet, which has led to a lifelong pursuit of powdery turns. Often scuba and paintball shops are the least expensive and most readily available places to refill your airbag canister. Check the product description, features, specifications, and size guide to make sure you are ordering the right pack for you. The Conservation Alliance. Material on GearLab is copyrighted. Although the pack does not clock in as the lightest airbag pack in the 32L size, the durability and added features are worth it. I have been teaching and guiding all season with the Osprey Soelden Pro and have found it to be fully capable of carrying a full guide kit (standard avalanche rescue kit, substantial repair kit, first aid kit, rescue sled/emergency tarp, extra layers, food and water, radio and snow-study kit) without it feeling like its being stuffed to the brim every time. If you're a lefty or a snowmobiler, you might want to seek out a pack with a trigger that can be moved to the right shoulder. Put the two together and we get Osprey's Soelden Pro Avy Airbag 32 Backpack. The side access stash pocket is a fine idea in concept, but I have found it difficult to utilize it based on its position between the main pocket and the avalanche tool pocket. Outdoor equity, climate action, places we love. We independently buy, test, and rate all the products we review. GearLab is commited to honest, objective, reviews. It's a combination of safety features in a backcountry-built backpack to keep us completely comfortable for a tour into backcountry terrain. We buy all the products ourselves. BD's JetForce Pro model is part of a modular system. , The Backcountry Access Float 32 2.0 boasts a functional design and reasonable weight for its volume, alongside a respectable price tag. The Alprides E1 system is smaller than most other airbag systems and takes up less space in the pack's main compartment. For example, we nearly had a battery taken away in Japan, and only after 30 minutes of arguing with the gate agent did we get to keep it. While skiing with heavier loads for hut-to-hut trips, we loved the Backcountry Access Float 42 2.0 and the Black Diamond JetForce Pro, with their sturdy frames and comfortable shoulder straps. Personal preferences like colors you don't like, style of the pack, or not enough/too much room in your pack. The Black Diamond JetForce UL is far more versatile as it has a 26L volume and offers some extras like an internal mesh pocket for small items. Answer 1 of 2: Has anyone gone on a fishing trip using Osprey? At first I thought this was an inconvenience as it required an extra step to fully open the pack, but through my use has proved to be a non-issue when needing to access things quickly at the top of the pack. eval("shoppingListJSPDP.setCatEntryQuantity(catEntryQuantityObject);"); It is easy to re-thread when the pack is empty, but challenging with the pack is full. ]. This pack design is a favorite, and it's one of the lower-weight models that still has the majority of features that most backcountry travelers are seeking. Like most airbags, this one isn't immune to its break-away zipper (the airbag zipper) opening prematurely, but we found it happens less with this model than others. We didn't love the "stash pocket", and it also doesn't have a goggle pocket hardly a deal-breaker, but it should be noted that most packs of this volume and weight do have them. If you used the MJ$ and your balance is less than deduction, then your refund is reduced by the difference.